Sex after betrayal

Many thanks again for the interesting comments everyone has shared with Liberty.   It’s been a fascinating couple of days!

Another reader, NMWF1,  is struggling with sex since finding out about her husband’s EA.  He had phone sex with her so in my definition that is beyond an emotional affair, but recently she found evidence to suggest that they actually did meet once, and she is in turmoil.  She wants to hear everyone’s opinions and experiences on the subject of SEX AFTER AN AFFAIR.  Here is her question:

Dj, a few weeks ago I wondered about  how everyone copes with the issue of sex , I said that I realize that the number one issue in the pain department is the emotional part of an affair, we all know, it is what kills the soul , however coping with visions of a  H in the arms of OW is pretty sickening to say the least, I want to know how anyone gets past that part. I sill don’t know the truth about whether or not the OW came here and met up with my H physically, but my mind is reeking havoc with me. So I want to know others thoughts about, how they cope with that aspect.  How do they get past that?  Hope all of you have a good day!  I know it’s just another sore spot to talk about. But I really want others thoughts.

I am one of those hysterical bonders, so I have positive and negative things to say on the subject.  I’ll comment along with everyone else.

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37 thoughts on “Sex after betrayal

  1. I too have experienced hysterical bonding. And guilt from hysterical bonding before i knew what it was.

    However, how do you get over it? I don’t you do. Not completely. You can’t heal from that. You may get to a point where you can accept that it happened, but not “get over it” you know?

    I struggled for awhile with “mind movies” where everytime we tried to be intimate, I couldn’t help but have flashes of them together in my mind. I really struggled with this. I talked with myhusband about it. Cried. Discussed it in therapy. And eventually in time I was able to just tell myself to NOT think of it when we ere being intimate. I had to tell myself in my mind to just not go there and really try to concentrate on us.

    I still get those mind movies atother times, yes. Sometimes, I’ll let myself go there for a minute, other times I push them away immediately. Often though my thoughts areconsumed more with the why’s, what his mindset was, how it all came about, etc.

    • Not Over It says:

      Hi Sam – I like calling you Sam. It fits. I hope it’s ok with you.

      I was exactly like you. On Dday, he convinced me that it had been an EA. I told him it was over and I wanted him out of the house the next day. I went to sleep in my daughter’s room – she was away at school. He came in and begged me to forgive him and give him another chance. He told me that he had already broken it off with her because he realized long before this that he loved me and wanted to stay with me.

      Then he said that if I insisted on divorce, then he would still make sure to take care of me for the rest of my life. He reached out and pulled me to him, saying, “I love you more than life, DJ. Please don’t send me away.” And I melted. It was like I needed to reclaim my territory. We were like two crazy long-lost lovers. It was intense and emotional and fierce. My entire being needed him, like a crack addict needs that drug, and I know he felt the same. We did it three times that night, with both us crying our eyes out in between.

      The next day I felt like an idiot. What on earth was I thinking? Making love with a man who had betrayed me and fallen in love with someone else? I later read about hysterical bonding and knew that was what had happened to me.

      The hysterical bonding continued for about six months, until I found out that it had actually been a physical as well as emotional affair. Then I entered another phase of devastation. I did not want him to touch me. The thought of his penis being inside her made me want to puke. The thought of his hands on her made my skin crawl. It was Dday all over again but with the addition of nausea and physical revulsion.

      Through guided meditation with a counselor, personal meditation, and with prayer I have learned to re-focus my thoughts, but it still bothers me sometimes. I try to focus on the feeling of the moment. My husband is very talented in this area so I’m lucky…

      Love & prayers,
      DJ

      • You’re more than welcome to call me Sam.

        My Second DDay was much like yours. SO overwhelming, physical symptoms of revulsion, (hey it was two additional women, one was a long term affair of over 2 years!!!) and I STILL have a difficult time with it. Sometimes It’s like, surely I’ll wake up and this will all be a nightmare, right? RIGHT?????

        That’s why I needed anxiety meds after the second DDay. zoloft and klonopin to the rescue. Oh and I down copious amounts of vodka those first few weeks. I was trying so hard to just escape the pain. But as we all know, there is no way to escape this.

        If my husband wasn’t willing to work with me, to help me, I know that there is no way I’d be able to muddle my way throught his alone. And he’d have been long gone.

      • Not Over It says:

        I think I’d like to do a post about medications to alleviate the symptoms. I myself have not taken any. I tend to be very sensitive to all drugs and I didn’t want to deal with side effects and all that, but my coach tells me that a whole lot of people take stuff.

        Oh, during the first year I kept thinking that this was all so surreal that it couldn’t possibly be real. I kept wishing that I would just wake up and find that it was all just a terrible nightmare. I still sometimes wish that.

        But then, there are other times when I feel that I would not go back and erase everything, even if I could. However much it hurt, I needed to know that this was the reality of the man I married.

        Then there are other times where I feel my husband made a horrible mistake that led him down a path to destruction and I wish to God we could take it all back.

        Just depends on the day and the way the wind blows… I suppose there will come a time when my mind settles down. Some people in our blogging community are speeding along the path to healing way faster than me… like Aaron CRJ and Huperecho. Sometimes it feels like I’m being left in the dust, but no, I’m not giving up. I may be slow, but I’m not giving up

  2. Paula says:

    Funny how the things you are dealing with come up at the right time! My personal experience of this is probably going to make this a loooong post! Apologies in advance….

    Right after Dday, I was actually not too bad – yes, the hysterical bonding happened, our usually wonderful sex life – yes, even during his 15 month sexual affair – ramped up several more notches – we were frantic, for about six months, doing it everywhere, multiple times per day, just ridiculous, lol. I felt that I now had some information I didn’t have before, and therefore, we could “fix” us – he knew there was something “wrong” but I didn’t really have a clue, other than a sense that something was “off” – I did have some reservations about the amount of contact he had with her – he never hid it, texted her when I was there, talked about her, what she was up to, where she was working, etc, so I didn’t really suspect an affair. So, the initial 18 months to two years, I was dealing with the emotional aspect of him using her as his confidante, instead of me, and boy, of course that hurt like hell! We separated twice, briefly (max two months, min, two weeks) during this time. After two years, I asked him to leave, permanently. I was done, the nightmares I was enduring (of them having sex, but worse, raping and torturing me, slicing my body into ribbons, leaving me hanging, bleeding, to die, and much worse, every single night) wore me down. During this time, when there had been nothing (from him, he did answer a couple of texts, I asked him not to, but he did anyway, with my knowledge, he regrets that now, and wishes he had listened to my wishes, and my good sense) except her trying to contact him sporadically for those two years, he went to see her. The day after I kicked him out. (She lives several hours away, but was visiting a nearby town, for her sister’s wedding, they met for coffee.) Two days later – ie just three days after we were separated – he drove to her house, and had sex with her again, went there to talk – to find out what it was about her that made him throw his lovely partner and lovely life down the toilet – but, of course, he was a single man now, so he stayed the night, and screwed her (this time using a condom!!!) He felt it was cathartic, like he needed it, to let it go properly. He says (and take a large grain of salt everyone!) that the sex was appalling. Really horrid. She is a cold fish, and their sex was never what you expect from an affair, more like “married sex” than we have ever had! She does nothing, just lies there, and tries nothing spectacular – he suffered from erectile dysfunction almost half the time with her – he has had one brief moment with me, in 24 years – she never did anything to “help” with this, never even had the imagination to do something so simple as wear lingerie and tear his clothes off when he arrived to see her. The most adventurous she got was one desperate BJ, when he told her it was over, after over a year of sleeping together. Stupid cow! I thought he could well be lying to “protect” me, but I no longer think that – I know plenty of guys who have slept with this person, and the consensus is, she is a slack f^&%! Lovely. My partner couldn’t get out of there fast enough – he says his skin was crawling with the horror of how awful it was, now that it was not “illicit” and “thrillling.” And, he was kind of relieved, as his memories were telling him they had no chemistry, but he was wondering if he had done that to help forget her.

    Anyway, back to the land of Paula. We have always remained very close – even during the three separations, this last one lasted for five or six months. We talked often. He confessed his “return sex” to me. I think I asked him what he’d been doing with himself, and he didn’t really want to tell me, but he did. I understood. I got it. He needed to flush the possibility that he’d chosen “wrong” right out of his psyche. I know it sounds appalling. The circumstances of the lead up to his affair, and then on, it all made perfect sense to me. I believe he had a breakdown, he’s been alienated from his family of origin, had them trying to sue us, he’d made HUGE, life-changing, risky business decisions, and felt like I hadn’t supported him in that (I didn’t really at the time, because he never discussed any of it, just sprung it on me, I was probably very resentful of his carte blanche approach to MY life, thinking that what was good for him was good for me too. I felt discounted, like a soppy appendage.) He broke. And yes, he is a fully grown man, and can make free will choices, but she was instantly there, soothing his pain. I hate her for not telling me he needed that, as my friend. I hate him for not telling me that, also as my friend. But also, as his most loyal and loving partner. I would have moved mountains, had I known.

    So, since reconcilation, I have told him I can’t stand to be touched. Not just by him, but by anyone. We tried to make love – or even just “have sex” a few times, but the only way I can bear to be involved, is not to be. I leave my body. I have to. Even doing this, I usually end up in tears afterwards. I haven’t orgasmed in over a year, and they were starting to fade, not be the earth shattering ones I had always had previously, sorry, TMI!! I got my hormones tested (age – but knew it wasn’t that, in my heart) – it wasn’t that! We decided to stop having sex, to try to re-connect on a less stressful level. To relieve the pressure to “be better” – I didn’t believe this man, who has not been without sex for more than a few days most of his adult life, would do this, or be able to do this. He can. He does. I started seeing a sex therapist – because I LOVED, ADORED, CELEBRATED, LOVED. LOVED LOVED sex. And now it is the worst thing anyone could offer me! WTF!!!? The therapist is now working with both of us, and we are in a process of absolutely no sex, to try to de-sensitize me, talking (we have “discussion topics supplied, lol) and then periods of gentle specific areas of the body touching. It is bizarre, and I HATE that this is what I have to do to try to be a normal, sexual being. I feel tearful just typing all of this out. I am terrified that I have lost my mojo, that I am never going to recover. I don’t even care if WE don’t recover anymore. I just want to be able to be sexual again. To love my body again, not to hate it for all it’s imperfections. I am curvy, with a 44 year old mummy tummy, stretched miles for my three decent sized babies, never to ping back into place quite the same way. Spanx are a good friend! I work out, it never shifts. She was a sprinter, an athlete, she has legs that go forever, and a flat stomach, and a small bum, and nice neat little boobs. I have large breasts, pretty darn good legs, I’m not horribly overweight, just a little (lost it all, but when put on anti-depressants about two years after Dday, I re-gained most of what I lost post apocalypse!) and I have a lot more junk in my trunk than her (she’s a no-bum, flat-bum, mine is quite big, but it is still quite shapely, lol. I have a neat little waist, she has none. I try not to compare, but how can you not? That is what he seemed to want for 15 months, not my hour glass curves that he had always previously celebrated – think Christina Hendriks off Mad Men, I’m a close comparison, maybe a bit smaller, but that shape, with same dimensions, and same red hair, lol! BTW, he is my first, and only, sexual partner, which just makes me angrier, I guess!

    So, the crux is, I dealt with the emotional aspect, and now I am left with the sexual rejection. It doesn’t seem to matter that he says I am way sexier, that he is still here after all this turmoil, that he is prepared to do whatever it takes to help me heal. I still, ultimately feel like I can’t have been good enough – not just in bed, but “not good enoug” in so many ways. My head knows better, but I just can’t seem to believe I am. I don’t know why. I’ve done the work on my childhood, blah, blah, blah…. it’s frustrating, and life sapping. Trying to make love, and doing well, only to have the image of her between her legs flash up, just freezes me solid, and vile builds up in my throat. The legacy of this just goes on and on.

    Sorry for the novel, everyone, and the graphic nature of it all

    • Not Over It says:

      No worries, Paula. Sometimes we need to discuss it and see that we are not wrong.

      My husband has also been my only lover and it does really hurt to know that he has had another, and it was when he had already been married to me for over 20 years. Was I not enough? I was tortured by this for a long time.

      I have since realized that he does really enjoy it with me and she couldn’t possibly compare. Most of the time I can deal with it that way. Sometimes I cannot. I fall apart and search his face for signs that he misses her and is thinking about her as he makes love to me. But it’s slowly getting better.

  3. nmwf1 says:

    Hi all, I’m not yet letting it effect my intimate relationship with my husband at this point, but the pit is looming in my stomach lately, my question is more reflecting, the knowledge of knowing for certain that a spouse has had sex with his EA partner, I was thinking, do I really want to know, (pushing it might bring out a truth that will take me over the edge ( if he really did have physical sex with her, ) not that phone sex hasn’t already taken its toll on me, he has begged me over and over to believe him that he has never physically met up with her, but once they have lied, how can you decipher the truth, really he might as well have had the real thing, i get sick just thinking about the phone sex, and talking intimate with her, and being turned on by her and her being turned on by him,( HOW SICK and TWISTED IS THAT? ) But in my mind, I have pictured him in bed with this OW all over him and i want to throw up, i have begged God to make me know and believe that his EA never got that far, What else would be left? How does a spouse compete with that? I would always wonder if I was compared, or if he was thinking of her while having sex with me. Where does it all stop and start being just you and him again? Without this other person being a factor in it all. I want the third wheel that is planted in my mind to go away! I just can’t seem to get rid of her.

    • liberty830 says:

      nmwfi….I know that with my H had lunch with the OW (who he still claims was only a friend) he had told me they hugged goodbye when they left the restaurant. That is bad enough for me! I am thinking we will never know the “whole truth” and at this point, do we want to? My H too has begged me to believe him but once they have lied to us, I just can’t believe it. I don’t have a problem with the sex itself, but the after. I get very depressed and that’s when my mind wonders. I can’t help think the worst. My H says he has always wanted me sexually and I am the one that slacked on it (being in menopause really took a toll on me) I know I am in better shape than the OW and I am not jealous of that part but I am jealous of the time and attention he paid to her.

      I feel better this week with all the input I have gotten on DJ’s blog. Hope you do to.

      Liberty

      • Not Over It says:

        This one is a sore spot for me because my husband insisted for months that they only saw each other once and it was just for lunch and they also “just hugged” when they left the restaurant. Many months after Dday, I found evidence in his receipts and a secret email account that they actually saw each other several times and spent a whole week together in a hotel while he was at a conference. It still grips my heart to think about it.

    • Not Over It says:

      You’re not competing, NM. He didn’t look for someone better than you. He didn’t look for someone to replace you. If he is anything like my husband, he just looked for someone who would make him feel like the king of the mountain because he conquered her. She made him feel special. He should have looked to you for that, but in his mind you were his wife and you were supposed to feel that way. She was an outsider who wasn’t supposed to feel that way, so getting her to feel that way was a triumph. Cheating husbands generally allow themselves to become totally selfish and insecure. The woman could have been anyone. He just needed that validation, no matter how it came.

      Question is: can he reverse this behavior and put you first instead of his own fragile little ego? Can he build his ego properly so that he does not feel the need for immoral conquests that destroy his marriage? Can he let go of the feelings he allowed to rekindle in his heart so that only his love for you will survive and flourish?

      Don’t worry about competing, NM. There’s no one who can compete with you in his life. It is his own soul that he needs to fight with and repair. That is where I struggle. Can my husband do it?

      Love you, dear friend –
      DJ

  4. liberty830 says:

    I sometimes wonder when I write and read on here about how much it hurts and somethings we will never forget, I am in shock about the amount of grief we are all in. I will never in a million years understand how someone could do this to the one they love…..

    • Not Over It says:

      I don’t think most cheaters realize just how much damage they were doing. Not that I am minimizing anything, but even I didn’t realize it. Before I ended up in this sorry mess, I never understood just how bad it was for all involved. I thought I would just automatically hate him forever and that it would be easy to throw him out. But here I am.

      My daughter says that neither my husband nor I have been the same since. She says we are shells of who we used to be. I don’t think I would go quite so far, but we are different people today because of infidelity.

      • Liberty says:

        That’s interesting DJ. I agree that we will never be the same again. I think that’s so hard to deal with because I liked who we were as a couple and now that’s gone. We are different as individuals too and maybe these two “new” individuals will not be able to work as a couple

        Have a nice weekend. Liberty xoxo

  5. Hubby and I did not have hysterical bonding and since FD-Day we have still not had sex. The last time we tried was 7 years ago and he totally rejected me. He had ED with me not her but she was a reminder of the kind of woman he got turned on with during his porn addiction. He thought he was healed in 1992. Our counselor said he has been acting out since then. Although not having sex until AP came along he was still pushing the envelope. I didn’t want the hysterical bonding because I am stubborn enough not to try and prove I am better then her. We never in 26 years talked about our sex life. I had no idea he wasn’t happy and he’s such a fool because I’m not a prude, he could have had anything he wanted. I refused to be her competition. I also at first did not want him to touch me. The thoughts of him and her made me sick to my stomach. Taking our time has given distance between those spinning thoughts of what they did. I had a self talk session with myself and visualized everything I thought they did knowing what we did and just said, “They did it. I can’t change it. I need to move on.” Doesn’t mean I don’t still hurt sometimes or think about it but I’m not lingering on those thoughts very long anymore. Both of us have been fearful that his ED would kick in again and he can’t bear to hurt me again. He’s afraid that his fear of it will make it happen. It wasn’t til after counseling that our counselor showed him he had a sex addiction and ED was a part of that and him finally admitting it that we have both relaxed. He is going through a coarse called Setting the Captives Free and I am doing the one for the spouse.. I know that getting to know each other again is far more important to me right now. I’m not afraid any more and no matter what happens or doesn’t we have both agreed to put it in God’s hands and ask him to help us in our weakness. We have not truly loved each other for a long time. I feel like we are courting again and have that anticipation of the “first time” as a new and better couple. Falling in love again is the greatest turn on!!!

    • Not Over It says:

      I love hearing about you and your new romance! What a testimony! All this in spite of the fact that your story is so very heartbreaking. Praise the Lord!

      • It’s funny but this morning I was praying and I said sadly, “Father 26 years of a bad marriage; all wasted time. sigh.” And then I hear his still small voice say to my heart, ” You have four beautiful awesome kids from this bad marriage.( my kids have never given us any grief and they have found wonderful partners in life) You’ve made long lasting friendships through this marriage, you’ve ministered to so many people through this bad marriage, You have 10 beautiful grandkids (from four step-children) from this bad marriage………..” “OK OK I get it Lord, it hasn’t ALL been wasted. You win!!”. 🙂

      • Not Over It says:

        Most definitely – God gave you a good message to keep in your heart. Although you have been deeply hurt, much good has come from your marriage, and much good is coming from your story now. I know that doesn’t make it easier or better, but may it give you some solace in knowing that it was not all for nought.

        Love & prayers,
        DJ

  6. Paula says:

    Oh Lord, I’m back! nmwf1, just a little thing that I have learned. In most cases, men are able to compartmentalise. Almost universally, they are not thinking of their wives when with (and that goes for EAs and phone sex) their APs, and, amazingly, vice versa. As women, we find that hard to believe, but it is most likely that he was not thinking of her when with you. Mostly, these guys need to concentrate on the job at hand!! Can’t multi-task, so their minds can’t either, lol

    Mmm, the impact of lying, it just carries on through everything, the doubt that they can’t lie straight in bed, pardon the clumsy pun…

    • Not Over It says:

      This is not to say, Paula, that most men don’t compartmentalize because I think my husband did that fairly well for almost a year. But he was not able to do it for all six years. The middle period was the worst, when he only thought of her. He came out of that in the last year or so and started to compartmentalize again, but found it was tiring after so many years, and made his decision to stay. He still wanted to be “special friends” with her, but he found that it was too much to keep her as his mistress and all that a romantic relationship entails, especially when it’s secret.

  7. Foolish Woman says:

    Whoa. This is a biggie. It’s one of the most difficult aspects of infidelity – and the one that seems to have the most repercussions.

    The simple – and somewhat trite – answer is that it just takes time. Of course, as we all know, there’s nothing simple about this infidelity cr*p.

    I can only tell you how things are from my perspective.
    Yes, it hurt like h*ll that my husband’s *paid paramours* were all considerably younger than I am. Young enough, in most cases, to be our daughters (vomit).
    I suffered a double whammie when we attempted love-making in the early days.
    Firstly, the mind-movies took over – did he do that to her etc, etc, etc? Was she better than me etc, etc, etc? I eventually learned to force myself not to go down that road by using a *distraction technique*. And with time, of course, it all gets a lot better.
    Secondly, he kept having episodes of erectile dysfunction (I know, TMI!) which he’d never, ever had a problem with before and which I put down to him comparing me to the younger women and finding me disgusting. In actual fact, it later transpired that this ED was a result of his guilty conscience. After he owned up to the final bits of info he’d been lying about, it all got much, much better.

    It helps to try and focus on the positive but this is something that’s not easy in the early days when everything’s so raw and painful.

    What has come out of all this mess of the last few years is that I am now considerably less inhibited than I used to be – and we can both talk a lot more openly about such matters. This was not something our strict Scottish upbringings allowed us previously.

    *For NMWF1
    I read about a tactic to deal with mind movies and adapted it for my own use. When I’m aware that my thoughts are beginning to go down that dark road, I imagine I’m in a car, in front of a STOP sign at a T junction. There are another two other signs at this junction. One points to the right and reads Going back to Sadness. The other one points left and reads Moving on to Happiness.
    (We drive on the left over here so it’s easier to turn left. If you drive on the right, you might want to reverse the signs)

    If nothing else, the act of making a choice makes one feel more empowered – and it certainly points one in a better direction.

    And finally . . . I just want to share something our therapist said – and which hadn’t occurred to me, even after 30 years of marriage because I put everything down to hormones.
    “Generally speaking, women need to feel loved to have sex – and men need to have sex to feel loved.”
    It certainly gave me pause for thought.

    • Not Over It says:

      I like that tactic, FW. In fact I just tried it. After all this hashing out of our feelings about sex, my mind started the mind movies when he initiated sex early this morning. I used your method, and it worked in pushing me back to the present where I can use my other imaging techniques to stay here and not go back there.

      NM – it’s like FW said. Time has made this possible for me. Time to heal, and time to get good at the mind games I play in my head.

      At the beginning, I resented the fact that I had to play mind games in my head to get through the day. I had always strived to live a good, clean life so that my head was uncluttered and I didn’t have to play games to alter my reality. I vented to my coach, railing against the fact that all experts wanted me to shift my focus and work to move those memories out of my daily thoughts. I still hate that. I can no longer live a simple life. But I suppose I’ll get back to a more even keel after more TIME.

      • Foolish Woman says:

        I’m glad it worked for you too!
        I don’t like game-playing either, DJ, but I did like knowing that I had some small degree of control within my own capabilities. The whole infidelity thing is such a rollercoaster and there are so many areas where we feel we don’t have any control or choice.

      • Not Over It says:

        That’s a good way to change my perspective on it – a degree of control over my thoughts… I’m letting this sink in… yes, a very good change of perspective on it. Thank you again, FW. Words cannot convey how much I appreciate having you in my life…

        Love & prayers,
        DJ

  8. Sadly, we never experienced hysterical bonding. I would have welcomed that, as temporary as it sounds like it is. Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that my husband conducted 99% of his affair right here in our home. Due to depression issues and HIS choice, he was sleeping in the downstairs guest bedroom. So lucky me! He made love to me in the SAME BED he was screwing his whore in. For nearly a year.
    Our situation is a little odd. He continued to work with her for a year after the affair ended (although there are many many indications she was hopeful it would resume) because they owned a business together and they had contracts due. There was not an immediate way out. I noticed he was more connected to me and our family. I thought we dodged a bullet. We put big efforts into rebuilding (he admitted the friendship had crossed boundaries, but swore for all three years nothing physical had EVER happened). When she was finally out of our lives, and I found out the truth (affair was physical for about a year) I was devastated. He was crushed that the previous year of “rebuilding” was completely thrown out by me. I felt it was based on lies and therefore was worthless.
    I was, however, the one that initiated sex. I felt I had to. I couldn’t look at him, any part of him without picturing her. His fingers touching her, his lips kissing her. It was truly a nightmare. I couldn’t stand for him to see me naked, and I couldn’t stand to see him naked. Honestly I still cringe some at the sight of him. I hate to say that, but the enjoyment of his body shared with someone else is a loss I am still grieving. WE were high school sweethearts and had never been with anyone else. I had to force myself to have sex with the man i had loved for thirty years. Today, eight months after d day, it is a little easier. I, like others on this blog, have learned to block the mind movies. It is not easy. One thing that works for me is to say NO in my head. To tell myself that this is MY MOMENT and I DONT CARE if he did that with her or not. HE is with ME now. She doesn’t matter, and I have to work not to LET her matter. I pray that it gets easier. I pray we can return to normal. I pray for a day when the infidelity doesn’t dominate my thinking. I pray that for everyone here.

    • Not Over It says:

      Hi EG – well said. Samantha Baker wrote a post today about wanting to get away from it all – to be just alone on a sandy beach with a cabana boy bringing her exotic drinks, and just read a good book that isn’t about infidelity or relationships or anything tied to her marriage. It’s a beautiful dream, but for me it’s just a dream… I have done that very thing and spent days at a quiet beach – no cabana boy, but a cooler filled with goodies – but alas, my thoughts would not leave me alone. I’m better at forgetting when I am busy doing something with other people.

      It takes a long time, but we will get there, EG. Foolish Woman so gently reminds us of it as often as she can.

      I like the way you talk yourself out of the mind movies. Good words…

      Love & prayers,
      DJ

  9. nmwf1 says:

    I to fell victim ( so to speak) after D-day, of H-bonding, I called it emotional sex, because of the shock and awe that my mind was in, It was almost as if it were the first time, if that makes any since, because the passion was somewhat ridiculously intense, to say the least, only to turn right around and rage with fury at him and have total meltdowns and rage some more and then wind up in the emotional sex again, over and over, and it still happens, when I am loosing control of my feelings from a trigger. I love the passion, but hate the reason, So I often feel guilty and angry about it. anyway this past weekend, it seemed like everyone around us came down with the flu, i told my husband that I hope he doesn’t come down with it, cause he has a project that he is pushing to get done, and I know how he is, (kind of a protectionist),, anyway, he said, don’t worry my love, i am as tough as a rock, (OMG!) trigger time, cause that is what the OW said that he was , was her Rock, As fast as he said it, he recognized my trigger and peddled backwards, but it was just before we went to bed and I had a meltdown with him ( not by choice, my emotions took a strong hold) but when we went to bed I could not bring myself to make love to him, My body was cringed with anxiety. Anyway during my meltdown I asked something stupid; Well pathetic is more the word, because I was trying to prove a point, however it came out wrong, I said: when you were having phone sex with her, did you think of me, (I was trying to make a point because he said I never forgot about you! REALLY NEVER???? ) Of course” I was the farthest thing from his mind, when he was having phone sex with her. (I know that.) But he kind of puffed up in disgust and his response was: THAT WOULD BE PRETTY SICK! , (Well I told him, not any sicker than you having phone sex with another woman, when you are a married man) (He lowered his arrogant head, and agreed, and said I was right.) Anyway to make since of where this is going. My comment when we were about to make love was: You didn’t think of me when you were having phone sex with her because that would be SICK, Well! I can’t make love to you when I am thinking of you and her having phone sex, THAT WOULD BE SICK! He got the point, he held me and comforted me until I could focus on just him and I. You know the rest…………H-bonding!

    • Not Over It says:

      Hey NM – you, too, huh? I know exactly what you mean about feeling like it was the first time and the ridiculous intensity of it. Even though the hysterical part is pretty much in the past now for me, we still have more sex now than we have since we started having kids. We’re like a couple of teenagers again. We chase each other around and “make eyes” at each other in martial arts class and attack each other regularly. Crazy, I know.

      Hope you are doing well, NM.

      Love & prayers,
      DJ

  10. mad cow says:

    Hi All, can I come on here and give a mans view please?
    I’ve read through this and find a few things strange. One seems to be that most of you only seem to want to have sex as a reward for the men. Perhaps you should be more selfish and enjoy it for yourselves. If she comes onto the scene then go with it, sex to a large extent is a physical response and you can enjoy it as that. My wife’s lovers wife told me that even when he was cheating (he was a philanderer) she still had her Saturday night sex with him, for her because she liked sex, bugger him.
    It also greatly upset my wife when she found out because she had stopped me and according to his story, he hadn’t had sex for years. If you don’t enjoy the sex now you are just letting the other woman win a little more. Maybe it’s a good time to tell the husband what you want and how to do it. My wife never had in all the years we were married, she faked it, how was I to know?
    I’m afraid I smell a few Porkies ( Pork Pie = lie) in the stories from the husbands. I find it hard to believe any man would go back to a cheat partner twice if he couldn’t get an erection. The reason she wouldn’t need fancy underwear or stuff is that her allowing him to conquer her is stimulous enough.
    The lovers aren’t better than any of you, if you were the lover and they the wife, you would be the stimulous.
    I do think men are different in affairs and maybe hard to understand because men are immoral, they know full well what they are doing is wrong but they want their lover and you. If they aren’t leaving then you are the ones who are important to them, the lover is a side dish.
    I’m sure that doesn’t make it any more palatable to you but that’s a mans version of multi- tasking.
    As for the erection thing, well sex is different for a man (why can’t you lot be like the girl in forty shades and have an orgasm as he opens his flies, it would be so much easier) When you are young and made of wood, most of the time you are having sex you are counting backwards or remembering something complicated just so you can last a bit longer. As you get older you still want to last longer but if you start counting backwards sometimes the old chap goes too far and deflates. It’s rough but there you have it, not to do with you or her come to that, time does that.
    When I first discovered the affair we went to the quack. He gave me some anti-depressants. I took one, I started having sex but couldn’t finish. I could have been a porn star still going after an hour. That was the last anti-depressant I ever took, I wasn’t that depressed.
    Byee

  11. nmwf1 says:

    This isn’t about sex, this isn’t about how to perform in the bedroom. I’m pretty sure after 34 years of marriage my husband is well aware of what I want and how to do it. And I am pretty sure I know the things he wants, and how to do them. Get a life, ( Anyone can have sex.) You are missing the whole fucking point. Its about betrayal. its about something that once was special in you life being taken away from you. Its about loving someone, and being their one and only. Its about loving someone so deep, that you don’t want anyone else. Its about being faithful to one special someone and making love to only them. If I wanted a man to share, ( with who ever he thinks is a side dish as you put it), I might as well have stayed single, instead of marrying the man that I love. Its about having someone in your life that you trust with all of your heart, that loves you back just as strong. Who is completely monogamous. Who isn’t just your weekend romp in the sack as the om’s wife called her husband. Its about sharing your life and love with someone special. Not some outside piece of ass. Its about making love to the person you love,and them making love to you. Intimacy is the most private moment a couple can share together. Who the hell wants to share that part of your life with anyone else. If you do. what the hell else is left that is special and private in your relationship. Not all sex with your partner is lovemaking, (or there would be no spice in your sex life), but it has to balance with making love to that person as well, or there is no love. And having sex outside the relationship can simply kill the mood for either. You my friend need to learn the difference. .

    • mad cow says:

      Well nmwf1 – I suppose the bit you bit on was about the other woman coming on to the scene, you took it as during the affair. I meant into your head after the affair. You have never had a fantasy? Never fancied some filmstar instead. Never read a romantic novel and wished your husband was like him. Funnily enough I think I have got a life and don’t even begin to tell me I don’t understand about betrayal, I’m just a bit further down the track than you and realise that somehow you have to move on or what? To be honest, if you rant at your husband like this then mending is going to be very hard. I know you are hurting but somewhere along the line you have to be calmer. If you just rant on blogs well ok, get it out. If you have made the decision to stay you have to accept that you will never get that exclusive feeling back, it’s perhaps the worst part about the affair that you can’t put it back. That doesn’t mean it can’t be great again because it can but you have to build on from here, you can rail against your loss but you won’t get it back. But he is with you, listening to you, that must be good, try and work together and get beyond him having sex, it was the betrayal in his heart that hurts you really, not that silly physical act but that he was willing to risk everything just to fuck this other woman. I didn’t say it was just about sex but the original question was about re-engaging with her partner. As a man I am quite capable of having sex whatever picture is in my head. As for your confidence about your performance in the bedroom, I wish I shared your confidence.
      The initial point I was trying to make was that perhaps you should want the sex for yourselves instead of for him. Stop using it as a reward, men like to be desired, how often were you desiring him and saying it before the affair?
      Even if you were aggressive to me at the start I do wish your journey gets better and you can find a way to start living again. I had a physical relief on his face when I caught him but that was over a year later and I didn’t have an internet to shout at so I do know about pain and frustration.

      • nmwf1 says:

        Ok Mr, Mad Cow, First of all, I am not using sex as a reward for him, And you are still not getting the point, In your head, its all about the act of sex, performance;, liking it , not liking it. i don’t have sex with my husband as a reward for him, If anything he is wanting to make me happy, not just in the bedroom but in the heart, to show me his love and devotion to me. And he did not have physical sex with her. Not that it is any business of yours. But since this blog is out there, feel free. i can see this conversation is going (NO WHERRRRE) You need to go back to square one my friend and figure out how to make your relationship whole again. Read all of the subjects on Dj’s site, maybe you will learn something.,,,,,,

  12. Not Over It says:

    OK Everyone – just so you know, I have edited out the insults from both NM and Mad Cow’s comments. My blog is not about name calling or hurtling insults at people with different opinions. I am allowing their comments to remain here, edited, because they both bring up interesting ideas about sex in a marriage after an affair. NM is still in the worst part of her pain. Mad Cow is many years out from his Dday. It is interesting to see both the differences in gender and the differences that time can make.

    NM – I completely understand your reaction to Mad Cow. I reacted very similarly. However, it is possible to disagree without resorting to insults.

    Mad Cow – I find your ideas interesting and I understand your desire to be honest and forthright, but there is a difference between being honest and being cruel and abrasive. Please be compassionate to the pain of others who are not so far away from the hurt, especially when you are on my blog.

    DJ

    • mad cow says:

      Sorry DJ, I didn’t wish to be abrasive. As I read the thread I saw a pattern, I have noticed it before and it does appear to be a woman thing. You have loads of sex after discovery (I don’t know the others story so I can only go on whats here) then as I know suddenly you wake up and think “hang on a minute” I didn’t do anything wrong why am I rewarding him. To me as a man I wouldn’t stop having sex because I’m a man and that would be punishing me, if anything I didn’t lighten the load on my wife because she couldn’t have the excuse of not liking sex any longer. I doubt in the 20 years since I have ever ‘made love’ to my wife without him rearing his head but then again many things go through my mind when I’m having sex, don’t they yours? What I think these images mean to me is that for her to be there with him doing it, she must have been truly excited, far more than she ever was with me I’m sure. I wanted her to be that excited with me and that is why he comes into my mind. I wonder if it is the same with women, else why does she come into your mind during sex? because she epitomises his arousal, horrible but probably true. The good thing though is that she is not there in fact no one knows what’s in your head so if you can ‘go with it’ she won’t last long. If I was to try the ‘right turn Clyde’ I’d be finished before I started.
      sorry once again but I really wasn’t trying to be abrasive. Maybe it needs longer to explain. I’ll try a blog on the subject it took my wife about 4 goes before she understood. I will also do one on having a life, that’s quite a nasty and judgemental insult.

      MC.

    • mad cow says:

      Sorry Dj I thought I’d make it easy to delete me. i know she doesn’t understand about Mad Cow. Did you notice though that now she does believe her husband didn’t have physical sex with whoever it was, if it was on the phone it could have been a transvestite lumberjack from Canada. Que Monty Pythons Lumberjack song, look it up you might laugh. She also must think he’s quite a good guy today compared to what my wife has to put up with, eh. Many ways to skin a cat, sometimes you have to change your mindset.
      MC.

      • Not Over It says:

        Hey MC – I’d rather not delete you. You seem to like stirring up the pot, which I know will irritate some people here because this blog is all about support for those who are hurting. Probably most of our conversations will occur on your blog. But your comments here, while I don’t agree with all of them, have given me points to ponder. I like that.

        I do enjoy the background behind your screen name, and I sense a hurting guy under all those hard, cold opinions and facts. I like that , too.

        DJ

      • nmwf1 says:

        mad cowboy, I don’t believe my husband either way at this point, I just know that i have no proof, other than she came to our state and were within 20 miles of each other at one point. i do not have proof that he actually went and met up with her. I can only go by phone records. Ok, I am starting to get the since that you do not think to highly of yourself, if I am reading your comment correct;, of what your wife has to put up with today. What is that supposed to mean? Or is that a dig that you somehow think that I am suddenly putting my husband on a pedestal above, who you are. I’m pretty sure a cheater is a little bit lower in moral standards than a faithful person, Dj can delete this if she wants but I just think some of your comments make you look like a bit of a jerk! None of us are in any position to to criticize, we are all still hanging in there with the ones who cheated on us, and learning to cope. But this blog subject is very touchy for everyone, I could care less how my husband felt having phone sex with the OW. its the fact that he did it at all is what matters. Its sickening and pathetic, , And you said that your wife must have been more excited when she had sex with the OM, what the hell makes you think so? The end result is the same, no matter what trick you can come up with. And I must say my friend, If your wife ever said anything to make you feel that way since having her affair, or compared you and threw it in your face. What the hell makes her think it isn’t her and not you. I don’t know but the subject is sickening, how the hell can anyone compete with comparisons.

      • Not Over It says:

        NM – everyone here understands you except for Mad Cow, so just disengage from it. I have left his comments up because he makes some points that are interesting to think about. Not that we have to agree with him… he just makes me think about my position more carefully so that I hone my ability to articulate them. No need to get upset…

        He has an interesting story. He had his own horrific D-day 20 years ago. Here he is today trying to articulate his own thoughts so that he can finally move on. I would imagine that he has not dealt with many of the hurts he faced because he now has a crusty, harsh attitude towards relationships, and especially towards cheaters. He blasts cheaters, and especially one blogger in particular, from here to high heaven.

        He is not putting you down for your opinions. He is trying to make you disengage from thinking that your value comes from your husband. He is doing it all wrong (sorry, MC) but his intention is right. You are much more than a wife who was betrayed. You are a wonderful woman with or without your husband, with or without his betrayal. You deserve a wonderful life, and you will begin the process of finding it when you figure out how to disengage from the idea that your worth is based on anything your husband says or does. He should be trying to win you back, and I know he is. Don’t let his past become your prison. You are worth so much more than that.

        Hmmmm… I should probably be trying to figure out how to take my own advice…

        Love you,
        DJ

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